Curse

Reikai · Jun 21, 2006, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

What game are you playing? Orison is 1s yeah, Cry of Fustration is a less than 1/4s interrupt (yeah like hell you can get this without some serious luck, hell theres a chance they'd interrupt your interrupt with it!) and Reversal of Fortune is 1/4s cast time.
Yeah predicting is really obvious at times, you can pretty much guarantee an enemy will go to use Orison 3 seconds after it just did if its under fire.

mybad >_> I don't memorize cast time of skills -_-

but you can probably get Cry of Fustration quite easily, again, if you know when theri going to cast it.

Say your in HA, running blood Spike, and your the spirit spammer (do these exist anymore? I havn't been in HA for a while...) Your team is casting, and suddenly CoF! bam. So you know it. Next time, they spike... 3... 2... 1... *necros start casting, you shoot savage/distract* you'll probably get that CoF.

- Evilsod I think you are talking about PvE here... All this interuption stuff, everything I've posted refers to PvP, not PvE. In PvE, interuption doesn't matter much.

Sha Noran · Jun 21, 2006, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

I'd rather play the ranger how i like to tbh than how other people think it should be, but thanks for the offer.

Then I guess you have no business on a discussion forum. Good luck with your Ranger. :-)

XvArchonvX: Yes, if you are running a team of Rangers (i.e. Barrage/Pet), then yes, I would recommend spirits. I would only say that if you are the only Ranger on your team then spirits just really aren't a good idea.

There may be a time and place for each bow, but in my opinion the best all-around PvE bow to have as your main is a Longbow.

xnightmythx: Hi there. I'm glad you liked the write up I've done.

Yes, the only way to legitimately run a Choking Gas build is much the way you have it set up there. To maximize the effeciency of a Choking Gas build, I would suggest a Warrior secondary, and the following:

-Savage Shot
-Distracting Shot
-Choking Gas
-Practiced Stance {E}
-Flurry
-Troll Unguent
-Storm Chaser
-Rez

Practiced-->Choking Gas-->Flurry

Flurry, with no attribute, increases your DPS without any spread out points, and you can keep it up forever with its short recharge. That should allow you to keep a caster interrupted theoretically forever. Have fun. :-D

Reikai: I appreciate your feedback and hope you continue to post, but much of this information is directed toward PvE players. If you could, please just indicate whether you're talking about PvP or PvE. Thanks!

Jenosavel · Jun 21, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

3) Flatbows are horrid, primarily due to their arc. You suggest RtW and FW. Read the Wind is ok, but why not just use a bow that doesn't suck and instead use a decent damage deal prep, like Kindle Arrows? And I'm not even going to answer regarding FW... go back to Ranger 101 man, bringing spirits is a) more helpful to your enemies than your team in 99% of the cases I've seen them used and b) not mobile enough in any case, especially if you absolutely need it just to hit with your Flatbow.

The problem I'm seeing with your argument, and it's a common mistake that I think every ranger makes at some point, is that you're assuming you need FW or RTW to hit with a flatbow. You've more than once said this guide was geared towards PvE play, yet the inaccuracies of the flatbow largely disappear in PvE. While without RTW or FW a flatbow would be useless in PvP, in PvE this is simply not the case, because PvE enemies move very little if at all, and generally the only time they are not a sitting duck is if your teammates need to kite the warriors (never a problem with proper pulling and aggro control). Rangers and casters will never move during battle so long as they're within range of you. Thus, your arc means absolutely nothing in PvE unless you're an interruptor. Since the arc is the flatbow's only downfall and it outperforms the longbow in every other situation, then I really don't see any reason for hating a flatbow. Can you interrupt with it? No, but then the longbow isn't terribly accurate for interrupting either.

If anything, I'd be hating the longbow since it really has no niche to fill in PvE. If you need to pull the longbow and the flatbow work equally well. If you need to attack, the flatbow outperforms the longbow in PvE. If you need to interrupt, you should probably forget both and go with a composite/recurve bow.

Edit:

Quote:

As for pulling with a pet, yes, it's very possible, and I didn't say it wasn't. Same goes for pulling with henchies. I was focused more on team play in high level areas (where it's most likely you won't have your pet along... I would hope) but yes, you're quite right.

Please don't get me started... the only higher level play where a pet becomes a problem is in PvP, which your guide is not addressing. The enemy AI is not smart enough to take advantage of a pet's lacking AI and thus in PvE the pet is just as viable as any other build. In fact, with the new factions elite Enraged Lunge nearly any poorly built pet build can out-damage non-pet ranger builds, and a good one is absolutely fantastic. For those that don't know, Enraged Lunge currently outputs 80 armor ignoring damage every 5 seconds on top of whatever damage your/your pet's normal attacks would be doing. Again, the real problem with pets lies in their AI and in that PvP enemies can take advantage of that to punish you.

Sha Noran · Jun 21, 2006, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Please, stop talking to me like I just made my Ranger. The Flatbow's arc makes hitting moving targets a joke. I don't know where you play, but when the Skeletal Berserkers are sprinting from caster to caster in my backline, I'd like to actually hit one of them occasionally.

I'm not going to argue about this anymore. If you want to use a Flatbow and have shitty arc, go for it. Longbow is better in my opinion. Have fun missing.

EDIT: The comments made there regarding FW/RtW are in response to someone elses claim that bringing those make the Flatbow viable. You shouldn't need to waste skill slots on your bar to make up for your bow's inadequacies; if you are, then you should probably just get a different bow...

Lasher Dragon · Jun 21, 2006, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Distracting is ok, but Savage Shot>Distracting Shot for many reasons. The recharge on Distracting Shot is gross, especially since it doesn't work quite as implied. Higher level monsters have clones of their most basic skills (Orison of Healing, Plague Touch) and even when hit with Distracting Shot they will continue to use them.

Quote:

If Distracting Shot hits, it interrupts target foe's action but deals only 1-13 damage. If the interrupted action was a skill, that skill is disabled for an additional 20 seconds.

There is no implication - Distracting Shot works EXACTLY as it is described. I have been playing my ranger since the betas, and I have never seen an enemy use a skill less than 20 seconds after I have Distracting Shot it.

What happened, you might ask? Why did you see such-and-such monster use a skill after you had Distracting Shot them? Simple - you missed.

XvArchonvX · Jun 21, 2006, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Then I guess you have no business on a discussion forum. Good luck with your Ranger. :-)

Yes he does. You may not realize this, but your opinion isn't the only one that matters and is not the only one that is right. I think you need to learn to keep your ego in check. Anyone who obeys the forum rules has business discussing on whatever thread that they like. Even if they disagree with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

XvArchonvX: Yes, if you are running a team of Rangers (i.e. Barrage/Pet), then yes, I would recommend spirits. I would only say that if you are the only Ranger on your team then spirits just really aren't a good idea.

I wrote a long drawn out list of examples of when spirits can be useful beyond FW in Barrage/Pet builds. Yes, in most cases a spirit will not be equipped, but they are very helpful in more instances then perhaps you give credit for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

There may be a time and place for each bow, but in my opinion the best all-around PvE bow to have as your main is a Longbow.

Thank you for setting the record straight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Yes, the only way to legitimately run a Choking Gas build is much the way you have it set up there.

Unfortunately you may be surprised to hear that your builds are not always the only legitamate way to use the desired skills.

If you want to increase your damage and have the ability to interupt even when casting your preparation (as will happen often with the short duration of Choking Gas, even with Practiced Stance) you could also bring your pet with Tiger's Fury and Disrupting Lunge. Spamming Disrupting Lunge allows you to spam an interupt even when performing other actions as well as disabling the interupted skill for an additional 20 seconds.

Flurry is a good option as well since as said it does allow you to concentrate your attributes.

Really the difference is a matter of preference. Do you want to try to deal more damage and bring your pet along, or specialize your attributes and allow for more defensive skills? Either way should work fine though.

Evilsod · Jun 21, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reikai

Say your in HA, running blood Spike, and your the spirit spammer (do these exist anymore? I havn't been in HA for a while...) Your team is casting, and suddenly CoF! bam. So you know it. Next time, they spike... 3... 2... 1... *necros start casting, you shoot savage/distract* you'll probably get that CoF.

- Evilsod I think you are talking about PvE here... All this interuption stuff, everything I've posted refers to PvP, not PvE. In PvE, interuption doesn't matter much.

Even in PvP if your running Blood Spike, interrupting the Cry of Fustration at around 1/6th - 1/8th second cast time is next to impossible whether you know its coming or not, its merely a matter of luck, knowing its coming just means you might get closer to it. Its worth a try obviously but theres barely any chance it'd pay off.

Sure interrupts matter in PvE. It may not seem to matter in the big picture, but interrupting key skills or massive AoE attacks can make a big difference. Same with spam interrupting a Warrior and catching Devasting Hammer, saves your monk 5-10 energy on healing and condition removal.

Sha is your love for the Longbow just an excuse for you to have nothing but Storm Bows or something? Having a single type of bow is just as stupid as having a weapon thats not customised or having 4 lots of Sundering weaponary.

floplag · Jun 22, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

a couple comments ...

i have all types of bows for various purposes... and the flatbow is to me the best bow for simple pulling, but not for damage.

i dont have to hit the target to pull them, i only need get thier attention... the flatbow has the longest range and highest arch, both of which will get thier attentions from further distance and give you more time to get away.

i dont use it for anything esle mind you, and once weve aggrod the appropriate mobs, i switch to another bow.. but to claim the longbow better as a pure pull bow, is simply not accurate in my opinion

Sha Noran · Jun 22, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Evilsod: Everything you say to me is just trolling for a fight. I'm not going to answer.

Lasher Dragon: You're just wrong. Sorry. I've been in groups with another Ranger in my guild and we both hit Orison of Healing with Distracting Shot, and he used it again, immediately.

XvArchovX: Are you even reading what he's saying? Stop acting like I'm just an asshole. Read his posts and tell me he's not just trying to get me to argue with him about something futile.

B/P was an example, not the only instance. I told you there were instances where spirits are useful, but its not an all-time thing. You just have to know why you're taking it before hand... it's not something to just throw on your skillbar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchovX

Unfortunately you may be surprised to hear that your builds are not always the only legitamate way to use the desired skills.

Dude come on, give me a break. I said that HIS BUILD was right and that HE had it set up correctly, and I was referring the the combination of Practiced Stance and Choking Gas, which IS the only way to reasonably run a Choking Gas build.

Subjection · Jun 22, 2006, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Wow! Amazing Guide Lo Sha! This and your basic ranger guide are really helping, keep it up!

@The Trolls in This Thread: If you have something to add, or an opinion to offer, don't come out guns blazing like you have something to prove. Im sure Lo Sha has spent a long time playing her character and writing this guide, so that poor nubs like me can learn how to better play our characters. It makes no sense to get all riled up because she prefers the Longbow over the Flatbow. It sounds to me like you either have a grudge against Lo Sha, or are jealous of her, and are trying to demean her in order to try and raise yourselves up. Just my opinion.

EDIT: I think I have a solution to the Distracting shot argument, the description of distracting shot is such: "If Distracting Shot hits, it interrupts target foe's action but deals only 1...13 damage. If the interrupted action was a skill, that skill is disabled for an additional 20 seconds."
Note that the description says that if the action was a SKILL. Last time I checked, orison of healing was a SPELL.

Sha Noran · Jun 22, 2006, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Spells are skills too. Everything you can put on your bar is a skill, however that's a very clever idea.

Thanks for the support. I'm really glad the guide helps. :-D

I'm a he, by the way, for the recond, not a she. :-P

Subjection · Jun 22, 2006, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Ah well, just more nub points for me

I don't mind much, and you are very welcome.
BTW very sorry about the he/she thing, I do that sometimes

Sha Noran · Jun 22, 2006, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Haha, doesn't bother me, just pointing it out.

XvArchonvX · Jun 22, 2006, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

XvArchovX: Are you even reading what he's saying? Stop acting like I'm just an asshole. Read his posts and tell me he's not just trying to get me to argue with him about something futile.

Whoah relax, I am reading what you are saying, and thus have quoted the statements that I respond to above my reply. I'm not trying to make you look like anything. I do ask that you do not make such assumptuous accusations towards me, I'm not trying to start a flame war. I appreciate the advice and time you have taken to help people out and I support that. I do however have opinions that I am free to share so long as I do such in a mature fashion, which is my intention.

However, if someone is flaming or acting arrogant, I will call them on it. As much as I appreciate your effort, I do not believe statements like the the following are mature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

If you can't catch RoF, don't talk shit to me like you know better.

There have been others flaming you, which is unfortunately common for many public works unfortunately, but responding in this manner only makes matters worse.

As for you Evilsod, if you disagree with Sha, fine, but please find a better way to express it than statements like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Sha is your love for the Longbow just an excuse for you to have nothing but Storm Bows or something? Having a single type of bow is just as stupid as having a weapon thats not customised or having 4 lots of Sundering weaponary.

There is no one person who is a ranger god, and what weapon or build that works for one person is not always what works for another.

I simply ask that the people on this forum take a little tolerance for other's difference in opinion. After all, it is the collective knowledge of the GW community that benefits those who seek to gain knowledge the best.

To return to the debate on Longbows and Flatbows, I think it should suffice to say, that the choice is that of preference. There are plenty of points in for and against each bow. What truly works best is what works best for that individual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

B/P was an example, not the only instance. I told you there were instances where spirits are useful, but its not an all-time thing. You just have to know why you're taking it before hand... it's not something to just throw on your skillbar.

This is a correct statement. The only reason I disagreed with you in the first place was that I saw it as being misleading to others to "never" use spirits. My further statements were to give examples of appropriate uses to show that they do hold strong merit, but only when used in the proper situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Dude come on, give me a break. I said that HIS BUILD was right and that HE had it set up correctly, and I was referring the the combination of Practiced Stance and Choking Gas, which IS the only way to reasonably run a Choking Gas build.

I went back and read the statement you had posted before and I do admit that I had interpereted it in error. I still believe that there are other reasonable ways to run choking gas without practiced stance, though practiced stance with choking gas would be the most the best use of it for the vast majority of it's uses.

Finally if I may, I want to say that I'm not trying to troll or pick on you Sha. People that take their time to post their knowledge on this forum really make a difference to others. I know that I learned a lot about GW when I first started out from reading posts on these forums. The hopes of my debate with you is to bring to light knowledge that I have gained as well and hopefully stimulate others to do the same. This I believe, when done in a fair mature fashion is what helps others the most.

Sha Noran · Jun 22, 2006, 04:49 AM // 04:49

I don't think that you're trying to Troll me Archon (your name makes me think of Artichokes, lol), and I've actually moderately enjoyed the discussions with you thus far. You bring up legitimately valid points, and I edited my other guide to reflect your concerns regarding "never" using spirits.

As I said (on one of these two posts :-P), communication is the key to strong gameplay. Please continue to post constructive critism as you see fit. I'll be happy to fix something if I'm wrong, and I'll be happy to argue my point forever if I continue to feel that I'm right.

XvArchonvX · Jun 22, 2006, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

(your name makes me think of Artichokes, lol)

Back when I used to play Xbox Live more often, I used the same name as my gamer tag and I had some people call me Acorn from time to time, lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

I've actually moderately enjoyed the discussions with you thus far. You bring up legitimately valid points, and I edited my other guide to reflect your concerns regarding "never" using spirits.

As I said (on one of these two posts :-P), communication is the key to strong gameplay. Please continue to post constructive critism as you see fit. I'll be happy to fix something if I'm wrong, and I'll be happy to argue my point forever if I continue to feel that I'm right.

I have to admit that I have thought about a lot of builds and situations a lot more in depth than I had previously and have come from it with a greater understanding then when I began. *bows in respect*

Sha Noran · Jun 22, 2006, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Glad to hear it's helped. Continue to bring up any issues you have with the guide, if you'd like. :-P

trobinson97 · Jun 22, 2006, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

EDIT: I think I have a solution to the Distracting shot argument, the description of distracting shot is such: "If Distracting Shot hits, it interrupts target foe's action but deals only 1...13 damage. If the interrupted action was a skill, that skill is disabled for an additional 20 seconds."
Note that the description says that if the action was a SKILL. Last time I checked, orison of healing was a SPELL.

Quote:

Spells are skills too. Everything you can put on your bar is a skill, however that's a very clever idea.

Not only is it a clever idea, it's the right idea. For instance:

Orison of Healing: Spell. Heal target ally for XX points.

vs

Troll Unguent: Skill For 10 seconds, you gain health regeneration +X.

I undrestand what you were saying though, but all the different skills have modifiers if they are skills, spells, or signets.

That's why somone who has Orison of Healing interupted can cast again as soon as it recharges. Try interrupting someone using Troll with Distracting Shot and see how fast they try to use it again. I can pretty much guarantee it will be at least 30 seconds.

Sha Noran · Jun 22, 2006, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Interesting theory, however in a PvP environment where actually people looking at their skillbars can tell you whats happening to them, any skill (Spells, Signets, Skills) can all be distracted.

EDIT: Just confirmed by myself and my Alliance buddy. Any skill can be distracted; the two skills tested were Plague Touch (Skill) and Life Siphon (Spell).

Lasher Dragon · Jun 22, 2006, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Lasher Dragon: You're just wrong. Sorry. I've been in groups with another Ranger in my guild and we both hit Orison of Healing with Distracting Shot, and he used it again, immediately.

Like I said - you missed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by floplag

i dont have to hit the target to pull them, i only need get thier attention... the flatbow has the longest range and highest arch, both of which will get thier attentions from further distance and give you more time to get away.

False. It has the exact same range as the longbow.